Refco® Digimon® Digital Gauge: Failures
Refco Digimon: [Failed]
The Preface:
I find no particular enjoyment in closing an Evaluation thread in this manner. The motivating factor driving the concept of our FieldTest Boards was and is to inform, advise and illustrate the capabilities of any of the Tools and Instruments that we elect to evaluate in real world conditions, I mean what better testing grounds than the field – the sun, the rain, the snow and the mud that we as technicians are exposed to every single day. Ideally these fieldtests contribute valid data when the technician is determing the value that any given instrument may hold for his particular application(s) – and subsequent decisions to either purchase or not purchase the instrument is made as a result of being informed on those capabilities as they compare to instrument cost.
We don’t add every OEM that approaches us with an instrument or new tool that they want to include in this process. We have declined participation by more than one OEM as a result of preliminary research that we do prior to putting it into rotation for our members to evaluate. Poor product support, poor after sales service, sub-standard components, inadequate specifications, inadequate distribution lines are all among the reasons that we may elect to decline an OEM’s participation in the fieldtests. A subsequent result of that “screening” process has been the association of the HVACPROTech name with cutting edge, premium diagnostics instrument OEM’s. Our current rotation includes the Testo 330-1 LL and 327-1 Combustion Analyzers, the Testo 318-V Optics Inspection Scope, the Testo Second Generation RSA 523, the First Generation J/B DM-2 Intelligent Manifold, the Second Generation J/B DM-4 Intelligent Manifold, The Yellow Jacket 40802 DRSA, the StarGate SG 3000 and we are adding the Testo 556 and Testo 435 as well as the Digi-Cool 1250 DRSA.
One of the instruments that we elected to add to our rotation that did not meet all of our initial criteria for participation was the Refco Digimon – I will not henceforth refer to it as a digital manifold gauge nor an instrument, because unfortunately it does not fit the description of either. This is the first of all of the tools we have evaluated that we have stamped with our “Rejected” and “Failed” tags. The HVACPROTech Boards and her members are very proactive advocates of digital technology.
Digital instrumentation provides the technician with the resources to accurately apply the skills of his craft more reliably, every time he applies them in the diagnostics process. It’s good for business, it’s good for the trade, it’s good for the industry and most importantly it’s good for the tchnician. Digital instruments are also not inexpensive. The components that combine into a system that ultimately result in the instrument are often proprietary, high quailty sensors that have literally required years, and years and years of design and refinement and committment by the respective OEM to viably put reliable versions into our hands and subsequently into the field.
Not withstanding the reluctance of some of our members to include the Digimon in our evaluations – we elected to do so because they promised everything I listed in the above paragraph, with a 2 year warranty and at a reasonable – albeit unrealistic cost – we should have heeded our reluctance. Hindsight is 20/20. Refco specifications and in-house fieldtesting data for the Digimon was for all intents and purposes non existent. Promises were made relevant to the delivery of the Digimon that were not kept – not by vendors but by highly placed Refco employees. Those facts alone should have been red flags to begin with.
Typically this evaluation wuld have been confined to the HVACPROTech Boards – but the general consensus was to propogate it, so the information would be available to all of our trade brothers. It is our sincerest wishes that each of you will heed the information contained within this post in your decision to purchase this particular instrument.
In closing this preface to the closing of this thread. I would also remind each of you to note the vendor of this product and be mindful of the role they have elected to assume in the scenario below. A critical component in the equation of the transition from analog to digital instrumentation is the source you elect to purchase from. Without support and service from both the OEM and their selected representatives, this technology is as ineffective as the analogs they were meant to replace. The following is the final in a series of threads made by one of our members – leading to the termination of this FieldTest. Caveat Emptor brother.
Main Entry: 1fail
Pronunciation: \fāl\
Function: verb
transitive verb
1 a: to disappoint the expectations or trust of b: to miss performing an expected service or function for
2: to be deficient in : lack
3: to leave undone : neglect
4 a: to be unsuccessful in passing b: to grade as not passing
Main Entry: 1re·ject
Pronunciation: \ri-jekt\
Function: transitive verb
1:obsolete : to cast off
3: throw back, repulse
4: to spew out
The Review:
I called Refco today…they called back…yes we got your gauges in…
around noon get another call from Refco….their is a part broken off the bottom…and “something” rattling around inside the gauges…obviously they have been dropped….and there for the warranty is VOID!!!!
I explain to them that I did not drop the gauges…and THAT Johnston’s will VERIFY that their were NO parts broken off of the gauges when I gave them to them….maybe damaged in shipping?? Well part was inside the box….but gauges were bubble wrapped so could not have been damaged in shipping….so NO WARRANTY!…but were in 1 piece when Johnston’s shipped them…no got a broken piece inside the box….so how do you explain that? No telling…but flat out REFCO WILL NOT REPAIR OR REPLACE THE GAUGES!. OH If you want them back you pay shipping.
Ask for name of supervisor…ILL post that and e-mail address in a min.
So Call Local Johnston’s (Melbourne Florida 321-676-4177)..Talk To manager Mark.. we have a problem with vendors doing this Ill check into it and get back with you…but not much we can do…..he never called me back….so I take it as “sucks to be you” response…
So any way Get the name of Mr. in charge of REFCO for USA…but he’s traveling until Wednesday….
Steve Secord (1-800-848-4232)..secretary Cindy I believe…same one who passes me off to Keith the head tech who said no warranty.. said Steve Secord is traveling until Wednesday…”I can call him back then”…guess they cant take a message at refco
So got Steve’s e-mail address…if anyone cares…
f.secord@refcoswiss.com
I have not tried it yet…a little too pissed off to compose and e-mail that is more than POS and shove the things up your 1@#$$…..sooo Ill try the e-mail later….
Bottom line.
Johnston’s says yes gauges were in 1 piece when shipped. but can NOT do anything about refco refusing to honor warranty.
REFCO says…we don’t care what Johnston’s says..broke now warranty is VOID…if you want you are POS gauges back you pay shipping..
I’m out $226 bucks….that’s real money on [Edited] pay…so torqued off is an understatement….but only thing I can do is warn others NOT TO BUY REFCO Junk….Ill call Steve Wednesday…don’t see it doing any good…but something to do…
IF any of you know someone higher up in refco..or Johnston’s and need my real name…or address….the moderators know it and can release it to anyone they know….
The Refco Digimon® will be added to our line of FieldTest Instruments in approximately one month. I spoke with the Refco USA director this afternoon and he advised they will be mailed to my address to begin the FieldTest process.
The technical and specifications data I have available is probably no more inclusive than that already available to everyone here. I did want to kick the thread off though so we can have a list of testing members ready when the set arrives, so like all of the FieldTest threads, review our Protocol & Policies Statement [Note that I am revising frequency times relevant to posting your opinions and experiences with the FieldTest Instruments]. If you are able to agree to them and wish to participate, add your name to this thread.
A couple of caveats. (1). Refco readily admits that the Digimon® digitals are targeted at the typical residential technician. These sets were not intended for commercial applications.
(2). There is also a designed in update rate of 3 seconds – again this is acknowledged by Refco and was designed in to the set to provide a more fluid display of pressure.
If you are researching the Digimon® for possible purchase, they are not suitable to commercial environments.
The limited information I have available at the time this is published is the following:
The set is loaded with 50 refrigerant profiles, including R410A
SH/SC Measurable [Independently]
Vacuum Display
Protected LCD Screen
Illuminated [Backlit] Display
3 Second Update
Automatic Calibration
Auto-Off
Battery Level Indicator
Refrigerant Updates Available
Swiss Made
360° Swivel Hook
Clear Easy to Read Display Screen
Tried and Trusted Piston Valves
Ergonomic Hand Wheels
Accuracy +<>- 1%
Pressure Indication: bar/psi/kPa/MPa
Temperature Reading: °C/°F
Vacuum Measurement: mbar/Microns
Operating Temperatures: -20°C to +50°C/-4°F to +122°F
Sign up to FieldTest the Digimon® now.
August 28, 2009 at 1:28 am
This piece of crap is worst in market, I got it abut year ago and was out of work for wile meaning didnt use it for more then 6 month and not even on every day use, Suddenly micron gage become 000 and after two days my High side become 0000, Tried to contact REFCO to know what to do and after 5 e mails still no answer.
December 30, 2008 at 12:41 pm
Interesting information here thank you. Also an interesting comparison to Robinair in your final paragraph – Tif, Robinair – and now Refco.
December 29, 2008 at 9:54 pm
i have a set for about a year now, and have been pleased with them except for the temperature probe. i broke the probe open to see if i could make one myself, and although it destroyed the probe, i was able to ascertain it to be a maxim ic (dallas semiconductor) digital binary 9011 type ic probe. this probe resembles a small pnp transister, and its more commonly used to solder onto boards for ambient temperatures around electronics. although its a fine ic for other applications, it sucks for this application. even when clamped and insulated, it still takes 4-5 minutes to respond, and responds as much as 10 degrees from a fluke clamp on with a fluke meter. the decision to go with this complicated and noncompatible ic for a temperature sensor makes subcooling and superheat usage on the unit virtually unsuable in all circumstances. i think i’m going to pick up a testo and sell mine on ebay.
i see other posts here regarding the noise in the case. got that too on mine at the same time the handle started pushing all the way in the case and brushing metal against the ic boards. took it apart and found that there is a small plastic push on piece that keeps the metal handle from falling completely inside the unit. pushed it back in place and everything is back to normal. must suggest if you have one that is rattling that you do this immediatly to prevent the metal handle from rubbing against the ic and ruining the unit. also quite interesting was to find they sanded the numbers off all the electronic components. which begs the question…
WHO ON EARTH WOULD TRY TO TAKE THIS THING APART AND REVERSE ENGINEER A CHEAPER PIECE OF CRAP THAN THIS PIECE OF CRAP???
my overall rating, 3/5 stars, but thats highly skewed based on the only other experience i have with digital being robinair’s first generation line of crap that never worked even off the shelf. i must have gone through 10 of those before they acknowleged none of them ever worked even to begin with.
September 29, 2008 at 3:55 pm
I appreciate your comments Wolf – thank you, always good to hear opposing views.
I must take exception to a couple of your comments – the first being the fact that you have to be careful with them. It is my opinion that by all means any instrument should absolutely be treated with the respect that they deserve – I do not however, believe that application of the instrument for the purposes for which they were designed should require the technician to alter his diagnostics process in an effort to “baby” an instrument that is supposed to have at the core of it’s design reliability and accuracy.
I also can not imagine the concept of investing in digital manifold guage technology only to apply it in or under special circumstances – in fact I see it as such contradiction in principle that it approaches the point of being counter-productive. I own several sets of Digi-Cool® DRSA Series, the Testo® 500 RSA Series as well as the J/B® DM Series and cannot imagine using analog under any circumstances ever again – if you have invested in DMGtechnology and feel the need to resort to using analogs as your regular set – I’m afraid the investment may have deemed a bit more research.
And I understand the idea of “casing” the manifold gauge is primarily of European origin – it is a practice that does not fly in the United States – as far as warranty return policies – contact either Digi-Cool® or Testo® their respective service policies are absolutely second to none and in many instances the technician has a “loaner” model to use on the rare occassion the set is returned for an upgrade or warranty claim issue.
The return process that was initiated in relevance to this particular OP – IMO was unconscionable. On the part of both the vendor in question as well as the OEM.
I would be curious to see if your opinion of the Digimon® changes after they’ve been in the field 2 or so years – if they make it that long – I don’t see the transducers holding up to daily application in this particular set – hopefully I am wrong.
September 29, 2008 at 3:23 pm
I have these gauges and actually like them.You have to be careful with them,and I’ve cracked both plastic high & low handles.Replaced one and it cost me $12! As for working they do a great job,but use them with care and use the analog as you regular set.I make sure my helpers NEVER use these and always keep them in the case when not in use.Most companies are like that for warranties anyway.Try returning something at Milwaukee!
May 15, 2008 at 8:07 pm
: ^) Yep.
May 15, 2008 at 7:42 pm
And we both know who gave you that “epiphany”. I have one who does the same.
May 15, 2008 at 11:52 am
Thanks for your comment GoTh. It has been my experience that there is at least a two part period of acclimation associated with transitioning to digitals. The first part is becoming comfortable enough with them to put the analogs away, alot of us are conditioned, and in some cases rightly so, to view anything digital as being delicate and fragile. When I bought the first Digi-Cool I was afraid to get them out of the van, the first 3 months I owned them, except for “special” applications. One day I had an epiphany and my first set the DC 1100 was baptised by fire from that point forward.
The second phase of the acclimation is becoming accustomed to the physical size of the instrument. After those two things have been addressed the digital manifold gauge will completely replace your use of analogs.
As I said in the first paragraph of this article, it was not a pleasant thing to close the Digimon evaluation thread in the manner it was closed. Members of our boards including myself, even though we all had reservations, sincerely hoped this set would be able to prove itself in the field. Unfortunately based on our experiences it could not. If you are able to find the time, I would sincerely appreciate continued updates on your experience in the field with this set.
May 15, 2008 at 1:13 am
I actually bought A set of refco Degimons and is very impressed with it so far. I have had my set for two months now and dont have and problems other that I wish there was a actual temp. clamp insted of the bulb. Its very infortuante that there are issues with warr. I amost cant wait till they fall out of my hands or something….
May 14, 2008 at 4:04 am
I predicted this was going to be an issue when I first saw the Chinese EZ-Check single head digitals – not so dissimilar from the current Robinair bubbles. Copycat OEM’s are one of the unavoidable pitfalls in any technology. As you both know, we have spent over two years at PROTech providing comprehensive specifications, discussions and interaction with Testo and Digi-Cool – not much else we can do but make the data available, and either they elect to benefit from it or they decline to benefit from the practical experience we have had with them.
May 14, 2008 at 3:11 am
It really is too bad that alot OEM’S are jumping on the digital bandwagon with the low quality digitals at a time of economic slow down in so many places. It is very tempting to buy a set of digitals at these low prices however like so many other low cost products one gets what one pays for.
May 13, 2008 at 11:40 pm
If your looking to go Digital you need to go with
Digi Cool or TESTO. Too many tech’s are going to waste money on this junk and destroy the hard work accomplished by TESTO and Digi Cool.